This is a partial transcript from “Hannity & Colmes,” August 20, 2004, that has been edited for clarity.
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SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: When it comes to fighting the War on Terror, some people say use any means necessary. But should racial profiling be a method that we use to defend our national security?
The new book, “In Defense of Internment: The Case for Racial Profiling in World War II and the War on Terror,” takes on the controversial issue of racial profiling in defending your freedom.
With us now from Washington is the author of this book, Michelle Malkin. Michelle, how are you?
MICHELLE MALKIN, AUTHOR, “IN DEFENSE OF INTERMENT”: Good. How are you, Sean?
HANNITY: Glad to have you on to actually talk about the book. Thank you for being with us.
MALKIN: Thank you.
HANNITY: I have always believed that Reagan had it right, that Reagan was right with reparations for the Japanese internment in World War II and that FDR was wrong.
Your book takes just the opposite view. Tell me why you’re right and I’m wrong.
MALKIN: Well, I think that for three generations American schoolchildren have been guilt-tripped into believing that what happened during World War II was simply the result of knee-jerk racism and wartime hysteria, and it simply isn’t true.
There’s a lot of evidence, intelligence that was available to the Roosevelt administration that laid out a clear and what they thought was grave threat of espionage, sabotage, possible fifth column activities being planned on the West Coast.
And that led to the evacuation and relocation of about 112,000 ethnic Japanese families. They were moved to the interior of the country, and if they could pass national security tests they were released from the camps. And tens of thousands of them left for these educational and work opportunities.
And in addition, a lot of people don’t realize that, of the people who were actually interned, enemy aliens, nearly half of them were of European dissent, but it doesn’t fit the P.C. mold, so you never hear about it.
HANNITY: Well, but it was in terms of a percentage. This was a systematic round up of a group of people because of where they came from.
And if there’s no evidence or suggestion that somebody is anything but a loyal American, I have a very hard time with this.
What would you suggest, based on your belief that it was right to do then, let’s fast forward to the War on Terror, and what would you propose, because obviously this is going to be controversial. If you support it then, what are you suggesting we do now?
MALKIN: Well, I’m certainly not suggesting that we round up all Arab and — Arabs and Muslim Americans and put them in camps. I’m not suggesting that.
But what I’m saying is that we can’t disarm homeland security officials. We cannot tell them you can never use race, ethnicity, religion or nationality when you are trying to assess threats.
And I think there’s a lot of common sense threat profiling that the vast majority of Americans think we should be doing. For example, that we should support the FBI when it goes to local mosques all around the country and asks people if they would submit to voluntary interviews that might uncover evidence of future terrorist plots.
ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Michelle, good to have you on the show. Thanks for being with us.
MALKIN: Thanks, Alan.
COLMES: You know, Lieutenant John Dewitt, who you talk about in your book of the western command, made some racist comments, as you know, saying the Japanese race is an enemy race.
He decided on February 13, 1942, to recommend to the War Department and to President Roosevelt the necessity to remove people of Japanese ancestry.
Roosevelt then issued an executive order, 9066, which resulted in just that.
So how is that not a racist policy, based to some extent on a guy who is racist, clearly racist, recommending that Roosevelt do this?
MALKIN: Well, first of all, I’m not denying that there were bigots in the country during World War II. I’m not denying that there was a history of racism and economic greed and opportunism on the West Coast.
What I am saying is that, unlike John Dewitt, President Roosevelt’s Secretary of War Henry Simpson and Assistant Secretary of War John McCloy had access to high-level, top secret, diplomatic communications between Tokyo and its consular offices on the West Coast that showed that Japanese-Americans, resident alien Japanese, were being recruited into this espionage network, had infiltrated the U.S. military and were providing very specific and frightening surveillance information about troop movements, ship movements all along the West Coast.
COLMES: But the problem is they made no distinction between Japanese who were here for a short period of time and long-term American citizens of Japanese descent. And that’s why it was, in fact, a racist policy, because they were conflated. They made no difference between the two.
MALKIN: All I’m arguing is that there was a military necessity, military rationale for what was done. And we have been denied the information that was available to the Roosevelt administration. I’m asking people to open their minds and take a look at the evidence for themselves.
MALKIN: You say more than that. You make the case for internment, and an internment, which rounded up legitimate American citizens of Japanese ancestry who lived here for years and some cases decades. And you try to make the case for that in your book.
MALKIN: Yes. Yes, I do. And there were a lot of incidents that were worrisome to the Roosevelt administration that demonstrated that there were Japanese-Americans who had not otherwise shown disloyalty who, when they were put in situations, when they were in contact with imperial forces, went over to the imperial forces’ side, based on appeals of ethnic loyalty and loyalty to the emperor.
HANNITY: All right, Michelle. How did it feel to be on the biggest radio show in the country today when you were on with Rush, pretty cool?
MALKIN: It was very cool. He was very kind, and I appreciated it very much.
HANNITY: He’s a great guy. And as always, good to see you. Best of luck with the book, Michelle, and thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate you joining us.
MALKIN: Thank you.
HANNITY: All right ….
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